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Re: [tlug] Japanese Input on CentOS / KDE

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On Sat, Aug 13, 2005 at 05:41:38PM +0900, Dave Gutteridge wrote:
> Scott,
> >That is, we have it so that you can input Japanese at will.
> Um... I can? I mean, I know that I can start an application with Japanese input support by running 
> some commands or scripts before I start that particular application. But is that really equivelant 
> to having the feature universally available so that I can just start inputting Japanese when it 
> occurs to me to do so? With the knowledge I have now, I have to decide before I start each 
> application whether or not I intend to input Japanese, or configure each application individually. 
> This seems much less efficient than just making a setting that will be there for all applications.

I believe I gave a suggestion for that.   Put the kinput2 -canna & in
Autostart and add the XMODIFIERS and LC_CTYPE to the bash_profile or

> Unless I missed something here, it seems like what we've accomplished is to get Japanese input in 
> principle, so that I can do it if I really want it. But I would hardly count the current set up as 
> being user friendly.

I think you might have missed the part that I mentioned above.   :)

> I hope I don't sound ungrateful, because I'm really grateful for all the help you've given. And 
> maybe, just maybe, I might be able to figure out what to do from here to get Japanese input 
> universally available as I hope to.

No, not at all.  I understand the wish.  One problem with creating a
page like the one I had, and its revised version is that there are so
many versions of Linux and so many window managers, that one has to
either determine to try them all or say, well, this works for me. 

In my own case, I need Japanese for a few things.  After a lot of
playing around, I've found setups that work for me.  They aren't
perfect--for instance, I've never gotten it to the point where I can
print Japanese without using OpenOffice.  Printing is one of those
things that I simply consider a necessary evil, and solving printing
problems isn't interesting for me.   

Unfortunately, Jonathan Katz-Brown's article on Japanese in KDE seems to
have gone missing.   I'm sure he covered this particular issue.  

One thing I did notice with a bit of playing around was that setting the
XMODIFIERS and LC_CTYPE in my shell didn't work as expected.  I had more
success setting them in my .xinitrc.  However, that's on FreeBSD, with
fluxbox as the window manager, scim-anthy as the input/conversion method
and zsh as my shell.  :)  

As I prefer to use rxvt as my xterm, I use two scripts, and
langeuc shell, but in fluxbox, this is simply a matter of preparing
keybindings and then it can be done with a keystroke.   

> But I thought part of this exercise was to create the basis for a web page that one could direct 
> users to so they could get Japanese up and running. I have a feeling that the current list of 
> instructions would leave most users, like me, thinking, "yeah, but how do I get it so I don't have 
> to do all this set up each time I want to write in Japanese?". Which will then have them posting to 
> this mailing list asking exactly that.

Ok, valid point.  On the revised page, however, I leave off mention of
the script in the RH section and suggest putting the variables into
.Xclients and the shell files.  If the answer is, yeah, but I want to
log into X, my answer is, I recommend you don't.   

> Please don't think I'm pressing for you to take me to the end zone, I'm just genuinely confused 
> about how this kind of set up for Japanese input could be considered desireable or done.

No, I think I do understand what you are saying, and again it's good.
It's viewing things through the eyes of a newcomer.   

There are things that have become reflexive to me that aren't to the
newcomer, and at least, if I get to a point on the page where I say, ok,
this step is up to you, this helps me see where I have to say that.  For
example, "If you boot up in GUI mode and use KDE, this should work, but
I don't guarantee it as I don't do it."

So, let's take this a step further.  (However, the KDE information will
not be on the page, I would only take it to the point where I'd say, to
start it when you start X, blah blah.)

To repeat my instructions of yesterday, in the Autostart directory we
discussed, put in the kinput2 -canna & line.  

In your .bashrc try

export XMODIFIERS=""
export LC_CTYPE=ja_JP.eucJP

Give that a shot and see if it does what you want. 

However--do keep in mind that not everything works.  For instance, I
don't think you'll be able to input Japanese in konsole, the KDE
terminal.   At present, Linux is simply not as desktop ready for the
beginner as are Windows and Mac.  Even with Mac, my answer to their, "It
Just Works!" slogan is, "Yes, google for 40 minutes and it might work."

There are other distributions that are more desktop and beginner ready
than CentOS and other RH derivatives  Both SimplyMepis and Ubuntu, both
of which are Debian based, come to mind. 

- -- 

Scott Robbins

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