Re: [Lingo] 悪党ども、海賊ども

[steven smith <sjs@example.com>]

Josh Glover wrote:
> On 05/08/07, steven smith <sjs@example.com> wrote:
>
> > I know part of it is aesthetics, part of it is the feeling
> > of the message and there is a bit of the smart-ass in it.
>
> Yes, I think you are right to summarise thusly.
>
> Biscuit, thanks for pointing out the socio-linguistic aspects; I
> really had not thought of that, and I think you are spot on.
>
> > My instructor mentioned long ago that getting a letter from
> > a friend who said 有難う　instead of ありがとう was not a
> > good thing, but in business correspondence, the kanji is
> > normal.
>
> Interesting. All of my written Japanese is in the formal business
> style (keigo and everything; surprised?), so I am perhaps not the best
> chap to comment on how to write a personal letter. :)
>
> > But even my instructor can't explain when to use
> > each.  Such an interesting language -- everything depends on
> > context.  Just hearing all the possibilities actually helps.
>
> Is your instructor trained in linguistic pedagogy, or just a native
> speaker? ...

I actually have two instructors: both Japanese native, one
teaches professionally and was until recently the head
librarian for the city, and the other is married with kids
and doing the teaching on the side for extra income.

I actually took my first course from the pro. in about 1984,
then there was this girl-friend, and I'd just graduated from
college and ... I got sidetracked.

This actually led to some interesting insights too.  The pro
has been in the US for about 35 years going back only for a
week or two during the summer.  The language she teaches and
much of what I heard over there and from younger speakers
here differ in subtle ways.  I don't understand well enough
to really explain, but the uses of で、へ、に conjunction
(for example) are much more clearly defined for her (event
vs. place) than for the younger speakers.

As anyone who's ever tried to teach a second language (I've
> done both ESL and JSL; the wife has done ESL, JSL, and BSL--Bulgarian
> as a Second Language) knows quite well, teaching *SL effectively is
> hard, and more importantly, it is a skill divorced quite a bit from
> being well-spoken and well-written in the target language, especially
> if that is your native one. Comparing my wife and I before either one
> of us had any pedagogical training (including self-training), she was
> a better natural ESL teacher than I, simply because she had learned it
> as a second language and I had not, so she could use what worked and
> did not work when she was learning as a basis.

I think I might be a better JSL teacher (If I can ever get
my mind around this 大変難しい (for me) tongue) just because
I've been through learning it.  Is that what you are saying?
> > It seems like in wwwjdict, many are marked as uk (usually
> > kana) but in my Canon Word Tank, you have to guess based on
> > the example sentences -- unless I'm missing something.  In
> > the case of these two words -- they don't even show in the
> > dictionary at all, although there are lots of …共 words.
>
> Get yourself a 広辞苑、mi amigo.

I'm really disappointed in Japan's  電子辞書.  My impression
is that they are very poorly integrated.  You have a bunch
of paper dictionaries packaged into an electronic medium,
but they aren't tied together.  Do you know what I mean?

Is this a cultural thing?  wwwjdict and jisho.org are both
better than anything else I've found, but you don't always
have internet.  I've been starting to play with gjiten for
just that reason.  I'd love to see the interface that Kim
Ahlström put on his site on gjiten.  Also Cannon at least
doesn't know how to conjugate, so unless you have the word
right, it's uselss.  I don't understand why they haven't
fixed things like that unless it's cultural or tied up in
copyright, or something like that.
> > Thanks everybody.
>
> Repay us in beer when you arrive in Japan! :)

Roger that :)

One thing I am going to miss from here -- Guiness is $3.75 a
pint here.  Even here we have two sizes of pint -- 16 oz and
20 ounce Imperial Pint :)  Last time I was over there it was
about $7.00 for (I think) for  a much smaller pint.  Oh well.

You know, I don't understand my obsession with Japan.  I was
there as a child -- returned to the states in 1955 at 10
years old -- and I've been pushing this general direction
ever since -- with a few detours along the way.  But even
so, my first time back since 1955 was 2005.  I hadn't even
thought about it until last year when I mentioned to a
cousin that I'd be missing the family reunion because I had
a trip to Japan planned.  It got back to her mom (my aunt)
and I thought I was in trouble.  The aunt was the one who
said I'd been heading this direction for years and should
just go for it.  She was the one with the insight.  わかりま
せん。

また、ね。