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Re: [Lingo] 悪党ども、海賊ども
- Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 08:01:36 -0700
- From: steven smith <email@example.com>
- Subject: Re: [Lingo] 悪党ども、海賊ども
- References: <46B3A869.firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <46B54593.email@example.com> <46B55A89.firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com>
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Josh Glover wrote:On 05/08/07, steven smith <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
I know part of it is aesthetics, part of it is the feeling of the message and there is a bit of the smart-ass in it.
Yes, I think you are right to summarise thusly.
Biscuit, thanks for pointing out the socio-linguistic aspects; I really had not thought of that, and I think you are spot on.
My instructor mentioned long ago that getting a letter from a friend who said 有難う instead of ありがとう was not a good thing, but in business correspondence, the kanji is normal.
Interesting. All of my written Japanese is in the formal business style (keigo and everything; surprised?), so I am perhaps not the best chap to comment on how to write a personal letter. :)
But even my instructor can't explain when to use each. Such an interesting language -- everything depends on context. Just hearing all the possibilities actually helps.
Is your instructor trained in linguistic pedagogy, or just a native speaker? ...
I actually have two instructors: both Japanese native, one teaches professionally and was until recently the head librarian for the city, and the other is married with kids and doing the teaching on the side for extra income.
I actually took my first course from the pro. in about 1984, then there was this girl-friend, and I'd just graduated from college and ... I got sidetracked.
This actually led to some interesting insights too. The pro has been in the US for about 35 years going back only for a week or two during the summer. The language she teaches and much of what I heard over there and from younger speakers here differ in subtle ways. I don't understand well enough to really explain, but the uses of で、へ、に conjunction (for example) are much more clearly defined for her (event vs. place) than for the younger speakers.
As anyone who's ever tried to teach a second language (I'vedone both ESL and JSL; the wife has done ESL, JSL, and BSL--Bulgarian as a Second Language) knows quite well, teaching *SL effectively is hard, and more importantly, it is a skill divorced quite a bit from being well-spoken and well-written in the target language, especially if that is your native one. Comparing my wife and I before either one of us had any pedagogical training (including self-training), she was a better natural ESL teacher than I, simply because she had learned it as a second language and I had not, so she could use what worked and did not work when she was learning as a basis.
I think I might be a better JSL teacher (If I can ever get my mind around this 大変難しい (for me) tongue) just because I've been through learning it. Is that what you are saying?
It seems like in wwwjdict, many are marked as uk (usually kana) but in my Canon Word Tank, you have to guess based on the example sentences -- unless I'm missing something. In the case of these two words -- they don't even show in the dictionary at all, although there are lots of …共 words.
Get yourself a 広辞苑、mi amigo.
I'm really disappointed in Japan's 電子辞書. My impression is that they are very poorly integrated. You have a bunch of paper dictionaries packaged into an electronic medium, but they aren't tied together. Do you know what I mean?
Is this a cultural thing? wwwjdict and jisho.org are both better than anything else I've found, but you don't always have internet. I've been starting to play with gjiten for just that reason. I'd love to see the interface that Kim Ahlström put on his site on gjiten. Also Cannon at least doesn't know how to conjugate, so unless you have the word right, it's uselss. I don't understand why they haven't fixed things like that unless it's cultural or tied up in copyright, or something like that.
Repay us in beer when you arrive in Japan! :)
Roger that :)
One thing I am going to miss from here -- Guiness is $3.75 a pint here. Even here we have two sizes of pint -- 16 oz and 20 ounce Imperial Pint :) Last time I was over there it was about $7.00 for (I think) for a much smaller pint. Oh well.
You know, I don't understand my obsession with Japan. I was there as a child -- returned to the states in 1955 at 10 years old -- and I've been pushing this general direction ever since -- with a few detours along the way. But even so, my first time back since 1955 was 2005. I hadn't even thought about it until last year when I mentioned to a cousin that I'd be missing the family reunion because I had a trip to Japan planned. It got back to her mom (my aunt) and I thought I was in trouble. The aunt was the one who said I'd been heading this direction for years and should just go for it. She was the one with the insight. わかりま せん。
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