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Re: [Lingo] Re: [tlug] Correct particle to use
- Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:34:56 +0900
- From: "Josh Glover" <email@example.com>
- Subject: Re: [Lingo] Re: [tlug] Correct particle to use
- References: <E1HvBEf-0008Be-OB@hikari.tlug.jp> <466D9D3F.firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com>
On 12/06/07, Stephen J. Turnbull <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
Ask their mothers.
Ask them if they can say 「bawdo君は日本語の本を読めるかい？」
I think not. I think this is either a mistake or conveying some nuance a) for which no formal rule exists, or b) that neither my wife nor I have ever studied. I consider (b) somewhat unlikely, considering that the wife and I have something like 10 years of formal Japanese language instruction betwixt the two of us, and she has an advanced degree in Japanese linguistics.
But stranger things have happened. :)
A look at the first page of Google results for 「を読める」 suggests that being a subordinate clause may have a lot to do with it. 「◯◯ を読めるよう」 alone occurs 4 times in 12 instances.
Now this is an interesting clue.
To resolve this issue, I imagine we will have to involve a professor of Japanese language somewhere; we need the why and wherefore that a native speaker probably cannot give us, except through examples. I do not mean to deprecate anyone; I know I cannot explain the formal rules for many things that I know instinctively as a native speaker of English.
Obviously, I am not arguing that "object を V-potential" exists in the language. Google has shown us that it does.
I am wondering if there is a prescriptive rule that explains its usage.
And I am attesting that the "correct" usage (prescriptively) is "object が V-potential" for almost all common cases (i.e. all those that would matter from a first- or second-year Japanese student's perspective).
No Japanese mother can resist the chance to scold "Even a gaijin speaks better keigo than you."
I am pretty sure I speak better keigo than most Japanese people under the age of 25 or so, cf.
- Re: [Lingo] Re: [tlug] Correct particle to use
- From: Niels Kobschätzki
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