[tlug] CLI admin how-to ideas?

[Jonathan Q <jq@example.com>]

There are a few things I think we can distill from the
recent long thread on GUI Vs. CLI. 

* Experienced *nix people tend to be very strongly against GUI
  interfaces for system administration, for reasons which include:

	- The GUI tools available tend to be not good, and
	  sometimes even dangerous

	- The GUI tools can introduce additional points of vulnerability
	  to your system because they listen on TCP ports

	- GUI tools don't teach you anything about what's really going
	  on, so if there is a problem introduced by the reasons above,
	  a person who only uses the GUI tool will be totally unable to
	  fix it, and if you only use GUI tools you will be much less
	  likely to become a knowledgeable, ever.


* Beginners want GUI tools because:

	- They are used to them from their previous OS (usually Windows)

	- Most people coming to Linux from Windows these days are
	  too new to the scene to have used DOS, so they have no
	  experience at all with a CLI interface, and don't know 
	  what to do with it.  With some experience, a CLI can be
	  highly intuitive, however, to a total newcomer it can seem
	  like a black hole into which you pour effort and get little
	  back out.  It's only intuitive after you use it for a while.

	- There are no (that I seen) clear, simply written, beginner-oriented
	  guides or FAQs on how to administer your Linux system from the
	  CLI, using only a basic text editor


There are other reasons in both camps, to be sure, but these seem like
three biggies on each side.

I am on the "Don't use GUI" side of the fence, as are all basically add
experienced users, but I started out on the other side.  In '97, Linux
was my first exposure to *nix and it was hard.  Doubtless, I sometimes
bitched about it.  But people on TLUG told me to shut up and stop 
whining and learn to do it the right way.  For that, I am grateful.


Now, we are not going to change our ways and start advocating GUIs, because
that be be Just Wrong.  So what can we do to improve the situation and
make sure that people coming into Linux get started on the right track
to CLI system administration?

Perhaps what is needed is a sort of "Command Line Administration FAQ/Howto
for Linux Newbies."  One that assumes your only available tools are
BASH, vi, and man pages (nothing against emacs here, but vi is commonly
the only editor found on a rescue disk, and perhaps even most emacs users
might agree that even if you don't like vi, you should know at least
the basics of vi just in case).

I don't know of any document like this, but if anyone has seen one,
please throw me a URL.

In the absence of such an existing document, perhaps one can be developed
by TLUGgers, or we can at least talk about what it should be like, and
maybe some people will get inspired to pick it up and run with it.

If this could potentially become a TLUG project, the first thing we need to 
find out is, what do newcomers want/need to know?   Then perhaps we can put
together some clear "Here's how you do this, from zero" documents to help in
that direction.

So, let me throw it out here:

=====================================
Linux beginners, and people not so far from beginners:
What do you find difficult/impossible to do from the shell?
What would you like to be taught, from scratch and step-by-step,
how to do using nothing but bash and vi?

Or even if you wouldn't like it, what do you need to be
taught how to do that way in case of emergency? :-)
======================================

We don't like to entertain whining about GUIs or "they owe me"
attitudes, but believe me, we do want to help you help yourself
if you are new to Linux.  We want to see people learn to do things
right and become competent users and administrators.


Jonathan