Re: tlug: Re: djb [was: ibm.net with LINUX (Red Hat)]

[Karl-Max Wagner <karlmax@example.com>]

>     Rex> Regardless, it's a mistake to judge his code by his
>     Rex> personality or which sides he takes in a debate.  I'm no
>     Rex> expert, so judge for yourself, but I've never come across
>     Rex> more robust code in my career.  It takes a while to grok his

Seconded. Qmail IS good code - just look at the clearcut
structure of it.

>     Rex> code because he rarely uses standard idioms and libraries
>     Rex> (witness his "substdio" library) but the stuff he writes is
>     Rex> secure and rock solid reliable.

Actually he gives reasons why he uses his own stuff. And weeding
out a library to the basics wil debloat it - and code bloat very
often ensues in reliability and security risks.

> When you don't have time to grok code (read "lazy" if you want), and
> the code doesn't use standard idioms, reliability is hard to judge.
> "It's my code so it's good" doesn't build confidence until I have
> independent corroboration....

Actually, there's lots of qmail supporters - people of known
quality like Russ Nelson.

>     Rex> His approach to protocol design is equally dependable --
>     Rex> rather than develop protocols that work correctly only if
>     Rex> everyone follows the spec to the T, he advocates designing

Not only that. He simply sees the problems with some protocols -
and there are a lot of Internet protocols that are simply
outmoded and ought to be replaced. He simply states that and in
the same time already provides a better solution. I'd not even
call him arrogant - I'd call that rather agressively honest.
Pretty much everything he sets out makes sense to me and I
appreciate him also for his courage to swim against the current
and speak out openly.

>     Rex> protocols that work correctly even if implementors just
>     Rex> follow examples and code to "common practice" (ref:
>     Rex> http://pobox.com/~djb/proto/design.html).

To put it in a nutshell: they are reliable and secure - no
"ivory tower" designs but designs made for the real world where
things often go wrong.

> Problem with that approach is that protocols interact, and there are
> legacy systems issues as well.  'Nuff said, until I've read the

It's seldom a good idea to stick to legacy technology it that is
known to fall short of present requirements. That kind of
thinking actually stifles technical progress - and this is
dangerous.

> reference you've so thoughtfully provided.  (I don't use search
> engines anymore, I just read tlug ;-)

Also look at his doc. It is EXCELLENT ! Just follow the
instructions and qmail works without a hitch. Everything is
clear and well organized. Compare to that the mess sendmail is.

To be just against sendmail, it was probably a good conception
in its time. Over the time however, it was patched and patched
and patched until it became the mess it is today. If that
happens, common engineering practice tells us that it is better
to start a new design from the ground up and to discard the old
one. Which is exactly what djb did.

What it comes down to: Far sighted people that agressively point
out deficiencies others are unable to see are often considered
arrogant. However, this is not the case. In fact, they are
seriously concerned and speak out to make their knowledge
available to others thus to improve things. So be careful to
dole out the tag "arrogant". It could be injust.

I have a friend who is about the best rf engineer I've ever met
( and I know quite a few of them ) although he doesn't have any
formal education in that. There are some who consider him
arrogant because he has some unpopular technical views. However,
if you are knowledgeable enough you know that he is right and
that you better listen to what he says - this could save you a
lot of hassles. Actually, it saved ME a lot of hassles. Since
then I am always careful with the tag "arrogant" with people
that have unpopular views.

                                Karl-Max Wagner
                                karlmax@example.com
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