Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST

[Raymond Wan <rwan.kyoto@example.com>]

On 18/7/2020 9:43 am, Yasuaki Kudo wrote:
> > There seem to be enough people who think that the current system
> > which tries to "restrict capitalism" to be a bit more society- and
> > environment friendly will never work out, and would try to do
> > other approaches.
>
> Yes, I have recently met economists who very clearly state that Capitalism is not reformable.  One person even told me there isn't a single theory she can think of that would make it work. 😄
>
> I think it is akin to say one cannot substitute proprietary software for free software - there's a reason why free software exists. Just like the economist I was having a conversation with, the free software people will probably tell you that proprietary software just won't survive in the long run.


I'm not so sure that's a reasonable comparison.  We've now 
reached a point where one relies on the other.  Recently, a 
commercial hardware vendor helped me set up something under 
Linux on one of their systems.  Similarly, I'm sure some 
supporters of free software sometimes turn to proprietary 
software.

I think there will be some (many?) supporters of free 
software that also have day jobs where they are paid for 
software that they write.  Because they still have to put 
food on the table.

To make what you're saying closer to this analogy, then 
someone would have to (say) work for a capitalist company by 
day and worker co-operative by night.  :-)

Setting up a worker co-operative is no different from 
starting your own business.  If you have the initial 
capital, you can do it.  The question is, can it last in a 
world of (mostly) capitalism.  I guess at the end of the 
day, any model would work...what's more important is what 
product or service you're selling.


> I imagine, in the end, there will be a substantial social, non-capitalist economy co-existing and the oligarchs of capitalism will stay richer than ever, at least on paper.
>
> I the future, I suspect that series of political reforms will the push the super rich and the like fleeing constantly to tax havens and "business friendly" regimes and their paper wealth will start to look shaky.   At some point, a realization will set in that their paper wealth cannot be effectively realized in much of the democratic countries anymore.


Uhhhhhh, I'm not sure what crystal ball you're looking into 
but (IMHO), rather than looking at "worker cooperatives" vs 
"capitalism", you should be looking at "Japan" vs "other 
countries".

Maybe I'm alone here, but over the years, I've seen a steady 
decline in Japanese consumer electronics.  Over here, I used 
to see many more televisions and mobile phones by Japanese 
makers.  And now...<shrug>  Even on a recent trip to Japan, 
I looked at the selection of mobile phones and computers and 
the market may not have changed since last year, but it is 
so different from (say) 20 years ago.

My point is, whatever business model you choose, I fear the 
distant future will have overseas companies buying up 
Japanese companies if Japan doesn't reverse whatever it is 
that's happening.  And you'll just have to accept whatever 
model they use.  :-)


> Checkmate 😄


I don't think so.  You're looking at just one match; 
mega-companies overseas are looking at an entire tournament. 
 Put more Japanese electronics on the store shelves and 
then it's "checkmate".  I'd like to have more choices 
again...  ;-(

Ray