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[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 03:03:41 +0900
- From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@example.com>
- Subject: Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- References: <C928F1D7-6F9A-46D6-81D5-15C62B37F2DF@me.scn-net.ne.jp> <E4B2CC75-0F43-4CC8-A4DD-D6DD85015688@yasuaki.com> <CADR0rneQNOEgLPFgE1yjD063TObiGxxOLs-n_Vyd2QzvG61duA@mail.gmail.com> <24335.61563.179189.841489@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <CADR0rnch3aQ7Rhj=6eKcis6CEBR+gVRP-3a68m5D9vjkF626OQ@mail.gmail.com> <24336.34739.235629.812734@turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <CADR0rndOFRQnLPMSpmF2+_AMgMwJiTkjtms3RgJtaPA_zooJhw@mail.gmail.com>
Benjamin Kowarsch writes: > Your response to that is like "That could never work for X" I didn't say it *can't* work like that. I said a *workers*' cooperative[1] *does not* work like that -- instead, the workers make the decisions, other stakeholders receive externalities of those decisions. Also, in another recent post I give examples of how a workers' cooperative *could* provide representation to other stakeholders, and presumably could get to representation of "essentially all" stakeholders in decision-making. Evidently a Raiffeisen cooperative is not, in general, a workers' cooperative, and cannot be, except by the accident that only workers in the particular enterprise purchase shares. More about that possibility later. > As far as the Raiffeisen model is concerned, nobody is excluded. > You buy a share in the bank and even if you are not an employee nor > even a customer, voila, you have the exact same voting power than > anybody else. This is just wrong as a matter of logic. If you have to buy a share, by definition it's possible to not have a share. Those who do not have shares *are* excluded from decision-making. The point is not to criticize such cooperatives for being undemocratic, if that's what you're thinking. It's that they *can* have externalities, and inevitably those externalities will become important if cooperatives become much more common, especially if cooperatives get control of industries that are "natural monopolies". But I'm not really interested in the Raiffeisen model, except as it applies to producer cooperatives. So I'm not going to respond to most of your rant. Now, let's consider an ideal Japan in which we all decide to convert our workplaces to Raiffeisen-style cooperatives.[2] Sit down, folks. "It's time to do some game theory." There are about 65,000,000 people in the Japanese labor force. If we suppose that the average producer cooperative has 1,000 people in it (that's a generous estimate, I think), that's 65,000 cooperatives -- and we haven't even started on consumers' cooperatives, etc. In other words, if your *job* is to "participate" in all the cooperatives you have the right to participate in, you can spend 2000*60/65000 = less than two minutes on each per year. Just googling the home page of each and navigating to the page that tells you when and where the annual meeting is, and you're done for the year. It's also not going to be cheap even if each share is a nominal ¥1000. Obviously this is a superficial analysis, but the "economics of attention" clearly implies that if Raiffeisen-model cooperatives become pervasive in the economy, consumers and communities are going to be represented indirectly at best in many enterprises that affect them, including some whose existence takes great effort to discover (supply chains tracing back to child labor are long, and sand blows in to Hiroshima from the Gobi Desert, you know). Looking around the world, one-person one-vote hasn't worked all that well in politics. It's not at all obvious me that it would be better in the economic sphere, and you might very well empower wannabe Erdogans and Putins by the hundreds of thousands, as they get their factions to elect them to *both* political power and economic power. Most likely such politics + economics scenarios are best explored in realist near-future SF novels[3] rather than attempting to do a political economic analysis if you're really serious about it. Marx, as we know, was a complete disaster when it came to predicting the evolution of the capitalist economy, and nobody since has done any better (except cheaters like Schumpeter who just predicted cycles of technological disruption). Near-futurist SF at least can be great literature even if it's dead wrong. And of course great novels may get a second run at the man in the high castle. But I'm not a great novelist, so here we are. :-) Now, given that the cost of participation is high, what is the likely distribution of share ownership? In a Raiffeisen-style governance model where any human person can buy a share[4], I would expect the following outcomes, not limited to producer cooperatives: (1) Many individuals would buy (or perhaps be granted as a condition of employment) shares in their employer[5]. Worker-dominated cooperatives seem likely. (2) Many individuals would buy shares in one or a few financial institutions they have important relationships with (their direct deposit account and the holder of their mortgages -- of course they're quite likely the same). Depositor/borrower cooperatives seem likely. (3) People who have managerial positions in their enterprises may acquire shares in their suppliers and customers, and encourage colleagues to do the same, creating Japanese-style keiretsu. (4) Similarly for competitors, direct and potential. Cross- shareholding seems likely to be used to coordinate industries in anticompetitive ways, as they are in Japan and Korea. (5) Social movements (PETA, greens) may attempt "hostile takeovers" of enterprises in industries they don't like. (4) and (5), and maybe (3), seem like they would be disliked by workers. If there is an option for governance (including conventional partnerships or non-profit corporations) they might prefer a pure worker cooperative to a Raiffeisen-style cooperative. I imagine there will be other things we can say. For example, people who have good experience with worker cooperatives may decide to form consumer cooperatives. However, it's not obvious that would be that universally attractive given the (truly abysmal) experience that many people have with homeowner associations (HOAs). And the unfortunately frequent illiberal (eg, racist) rules and informal behaviors that HOAs engage in suggests they may need regulation on that front in many countries (specifically the US and Japan). Restricted to producer cooperatives, there are probably other groups that might want to buy shares to influence their behavior. And if capitalist enterprises are still allowed, Benjamin describes the case of the British housing societies which were bought out by for-profit banks. Of course in the Raiffeisen model direct buyout is prohibited by law, but there are probably ways to get around it (eg, sell all the assets and transfer all the workers individually -- probably you'd need to do quite a bit of the latter first, and they'd still retain their shares giving them an incentive to vote with their new employer). > Note that Austrian and German law doesn't distinguish between > banking/utility cooperatives, manufacturing/trading cooperatives > and consumer cooperatives. Under the law they are all the same. Granted, but it is still true that the incentives in the different industries are different. The *economics* of the different industries are different. The *stakeholders* are different. The likely division of stakeholders into *members and nonmembers* is different, resulting in different realized governance structures, even if they all have the same governance model under law. So there's no good reason to believe behavior or economic performance will be the same. Footnotes: [1] I'll use the term "producer cooperative" as as the generic term because it focuses on the economic role of the cooperative rather than its governance structure. *Worker cooperative* is reserved for the case of a producer cooperative where workers monopolize, or at least dominate, governance. [2] Maybe I'll think about other governance structures later. If you want to read ahead in the textbook, look up the Mondragon cooperatives. Aside from the usual suspects, this is a useful short guide that covers both the nitty gritty of governance and some issues with values: https://medium.com/fifty-by-fifty/mondragon-through-a-critical-lens-b29de8c6049 [3] Apparently there are a bunch of good ones out for this summer's reading, though I don't know of any on the theme of worker cooperatives. [4] Assuming I've understood Benjamin correctly. [5] This is a bit awkward, but I don't feel like coining a term: I mean the enterprise to which the individual provides the substantial majority of their efforts and talents. Also, in Spain cooperatives are considered employers for the purposes of participation in the national social safety net.
- References:
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Kevin Sullivan
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Yasuaki Kudo
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Benjamin Kowarsch
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Stephen J. Turnbull
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Benjamin Kowarsch
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Stephen J. Turnbull
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Benjamin Kowarsch
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