Re: [tlug] Ubuntu Trusty (14.04) issues

[Raymond Wan <rwan.kyoto@example.com>]

On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen@example.com> wrote:
> Raymond Wan writes:
>
>  > I wonder if there is any Linux distribution that allows you to keep
>  > your system at one version but upgrade software like your web browser
>  > in an isolated way such that all of its dependencies are put somewhere
>  > so as not to disturb the rest of the system?
>
> Python does (virtualenv allows you to do such installations flexibly
> for *any* Python app), but I don't know of any Linux distro that
> allows multiple copies of dependencies.
>
> However, in my experience Debian's (apt's) ability to pick a virtual
> distro (stable, testing, unstable) plus specify some packages in a
> different distro, and others to be pinned, works well (at least with
> stable-by-default, testing-by-request).  The problem is the UI --
> while Real Users prefer to write directly into text files in /etc, of
> course, you need to have flexible and specific access to the
> dependency graph so you don't wedge apt completely.  This is missing
> (and really should be part of the config editor).  aptitude does do
> the work for you at install time, but it's no help configuring these
> things.


Yes, the UI is indeed one problem.  I'm sure for many, apt, aptitude,
etc. are all a bit difficult to deal with.

As for the libraries, I think one problem is the symbolic links for
libraries.  Even if you could install multiple versions of libc, one
is still the primary version and updating that will break software
that depend on it; especially if the new library version isn't
backward compatible.  There is Linux software which is self-contained
and statically linked.  That's probably one way to go...

Previously, I installed mediawiki from source because it was the
latest version.  After a few OS upgrades, that ended up being old.
Installing self-contained software is one solution, but it sort of
defeats the purpose of having a package management system.  What would
be nice is to have a 'good' package management system instead of
installing software without one to get the latest software.

It would be nice to be on Debian stable and use testing's Firefox (for
example) without breaking anything else.  And when I finally upgrade
the entire system to testing, it manages all those duplicate libraries
auto-magically...


>  > Ironically, I think Windows does or did this.  If I recall, when you
>  > install a new program, it copies a heap of DLLs without really
>  > checking if you had it already.  I vaguely recall having the same DLL
>  > multiple times in the same system.
>
> Sometimes they do, sometimes they overwrite the system DLL. :-(  The
> latter doesn't happen so much any more, but the former means that if
> the app goes out of support you are completely exposed to old security
> issues indefinitely.  You pays your money, and then you lose.


Ah!  I suddenly remember all those DLL being overwritten during my
Windows days.  Almost forgot about them...

I guess I don't use Windows enough now to know what has changed.  Not
sure if its management of DLLs have improved or it just overwrites
without asking.  :-)

Ray