Re: [tlug] Wifi hotspot access in Tokyo (Very OT)

[Raymond Wan <rwan.kyoto@example.com>]

On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 3:27 AM, Benjamin Tayehanpour
<benjamin@example.com> wrote:
> On 14 March 2014 16:30, Raymond Wan <rwan.kyoto@example.com> wrote:
> Provided the passengers are using seat belts and all the appropriate
> distances are being held, a sudden retardation in speed will bring
> damage to neither people nor vehicles. But I see at what you are
> trying to get. Seeing isn't agreeing, though. Are you saying that a
> hypothetical possibility of collateral damage takes precedence over an
> actual emergency in progress?


Well, quite frankly, you shouldn't be agreeing with me.  You asked me
what *I* would do in your hypothetical situation.  You aren't trying
to find a consensus as if either both of us crosses the street or both
of us stays put.  So, of course, do whatever you like.

As for your last question, no, that isn't what I'm saying.  What I'm
saying is that you're seeing rules as restricting you from one
particular situation involving you, the robber, and a street.  What
I'm saying is that rules also cover the days when you're driving along
the street and can do so with reasonable certainty that not many
people will jump out in front to jaywalk.


>> The original scenario about being disallowed to use a computer in the
>> library by a security guard also assumes that only two people exist in
>> a closed world, independent of everything else.  Keeping in mind that
>> the security "robot" doesn't make the rules and is really just doing
>> his job,
> Not a robot. A human being, which means he is allowed to make
> judgement calls. After all, if the employer doesn't have faith in his
> judgement, he is the wrong person for the job.


Well, I'm not a security guard in a library, but I would guess he is
able to make exceptions.  If the library servers are down and the
technical support comes in and needs to set up his laptop to get
things back in order, I *guess* the security guard would allow it.
But...foreigner and his laptop in a library...I'm not sure if that's
even worth comparing!!

Just because the security guard doesn't do something that favors us,
doesn't mean he can't think for himself.


> come alone. Be a dozen. Be a hundred. Bring your laptops. Bring some
> press coverage. Make a peaceful (and quiet, since you're in a library)
> protest action, demonstrating why a laptop has a rightful place in a
> library. That way, the guard's choice is easy, since it obviously is a
> bigger situation than he has the authority to act on independently.
> Then it's up to the library whether they're going to be total morons
> about it or actually listen to the people who actually use the
> library.
>
> We have free Wi-Fi in all larger public libraries, and most of the
> smaller ones too. The computer is an indispensable tool for doing
> collaborative research.


I think Stephen already phased it very well.

Just as you want to use your laptop to show him they have a rightful
place in a library, you might want to leave the laptop at home and try
to read some books for a change.  *If* most library patrons really
needed to bring a laptop but can't, then they would stop going to the
library.  The library would have no one coming and they would have to
consider changing their policy.  Clearly, the number of people that
enters the library affects how much funding they get...if no one is
using it, then their existence isn't justified.  With the current
policy in place, they get enough customers...and, at least for the
moment...customers to apparently prefer to read.

Also, no one said computers are not useful for collaborative research;
more than likely, the library provides computers to search their card
catalogue and the web...  The point is about bringing your own
computer.



> I'm not sure whether it's your depiction of Japan or my interpretation
> of it which is flawed, but so far, Japan sounds pretty dysfunctional.
> Irrational rules? Laws discouraging conscious thought? Calling
> employees "robots" and treating them as such? WTF? Please tell me I'm
> misunderstanding you. There's a rather popular subculture in Sweden
> which is basically adoring all things Japanese, and I used to be one
> of them growing up. I wouldn't want all that to be shattered.


Well, for starters and in defense of Japan, let me emphasize that you
asked me what *I* would do.  And I answered you, even though it is
becoming seriously off-topic.  You didn't ask me what Japanese would
do or even what others here at TLUG would do.

Second, I didn't call them "robots".  I was just re-using the term
used by the OP.  I thought that was clear, but I guess it wasn't.
Sorry about that!  (As an aside, nothing wrong with robots...I think
they're pretty cool as long as they aren't controlled by Skynet...
:-) )

Third, Japan has 120 million people...12 times more than Sweden.  You
can't make a generalization about Sweden or its culture through one
person, one incident, or even one library.  So, surely you shouldn't
do the same about Japan  You could live years in Tokyo and still only
scratch the surface.

Ray