Re: [tlug] Debian rant

["Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull@example.com>]

Shawn Brown writes:

 > What we want to do is include a binary that will be flashed to a
 > third device.  Debian maintainers are saying that to make a package
 > which will flash the binary to another device, that we should
 > include the tool chain to make the binary in the Debian package,
 > and create it as part of the Debian install.  After it's flashed,
 > the package will enable the user to communicate write programs for
 > the device.

Neither the free software definition nor the open source definition
require that you provide the tools, and the GPL doesn't, either.  For
example, it's quite possible to write and usefully distribute GPLed
software that depends on features of a proprietary compiler or
language, and it's the users' problem to get their hands on those
things.

I guess what's happening is that you're running into the Debian
requirement that Debian packages be buildable from source.  So for
example, XEmacs provides a virtual Lisp machine (more frequently
referred to as the "bytecode interpreter") as well as a direct
interpreter for uncompiled Lisp programs.  We also provide a large
number of add-on packages like MUAs, programming modes, IRC clients, a
window manager for X, etc.  For technical reasons, it's basically
impractical to build a lone package (Lisp programmers tend to include
other libraries like crazy); practically you kind of have to build the
whole world of packages at once.  So we build the packages and upload
precompiled versions.

It would be very easy, and I think very popular, for Debian to provide
XEmacs Lisp packages by downloading our precompiled binaries.  But
they never have and never will, because they have a policy that if
Debian distributes binaries, Debian builds them.  As a consequence,
Debian distributes all of our Lisp packages in two monster packages,
the regular xemacs-support packages and the Mule xemacs-mule-support
package (or some such spelling).  This is a little bit different in
terms of the physical layout from your case, of course (we have no USB
cable separating the Lisp VM from the user ;-), but I can sort of see
how the Debian policy might apply in very mendoukusai ways to your
case.

But I would think that you could provide binary packages, as long as
you also provide source packages such that you can install from
source with

debian/rules binary_package; dpkg -i shawns-stuff.deb