Re: [tlug] State of "Linux" documentation [was: Books]

[Scott Robbins <scottro@example.com>]

On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 10:54:49AM +0900, Edward Middleton wrote:

> Scott Robbins wrote:
> >On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 09:57:16AM +0900, Edward Middleton wrote:
> >  
> >>>       
> the utility of console tools.  What annoys me, is what seems to be a move 
> towards depreciating (i.e. not supporting)  the command line interface.
> 
In many cases, when I check the RH deployment guides, they seem to
assume that you will be using the GUI tools.  This always surprises me
as most sysadmins prefer text files.  


> >There's an interesting quote around (I saw it on a BSD forum), to the
> >effect that Unix doesn't keep its users from doing something stupid
> >because that might also keep them from doing something smart.
> >  
> 
> But then BSD users tend to be more technically sophisticated.  If I were 
> setting up a BSD system for broad public consumption I would want to nail 
> everything down.

Yes, and that's being done too--there is now PCBSD and
DesktopBSD--Desktop is more of a standard BSD with a builtin KDE
install.

> >That seems to be changing however--Fedora did something to make it hard
> >to log into X as root, and Alan Cox posted back something like, , What's
> >the point of this, to make sure you can't fix a totally borked system?
> >  
> 
> I guess for the people this would help they aren't going to be fixing a borked 
> system.  What to me is more irritating is that you would need to login to X to 
> fix a borked system.


My apologies, I was giving incorrect information.  My memory was off.
The original implication, to which Mr. Cox reacted, was that they were
going to make root login, period, impossible. 

> 
> >Ubunutu, with its "You're too stupid to be root."
> >  
> 
> Doesn't Ubuntu let you login as root with sudo su - ?

Yes, but look at their forums and see how many people don't know it. I'm
exaggerating to make the point, I suppose.   

The face of OSS is changing--even on more technical forums, there is a
greater influx of beginners.  Questions are posed on Ubuntu forums which
would have been met, a few years ago, with a link to ESR's asking
questions the smart way. 

This isn't necessarily a bad thing.  The greater the user base, the
easier it might become to get hardware support.  I have great respect
for those on Ubuntu forums who answer those questions politely.  

Ubuntu's stated number one bug is that Windows is more popular. So, they
require a different mind set. 

I wonder sometimes if all of us are a bit schizophrenic (more hyperbole,
of course) in that we don't want it dumbed down, but we do want to get a
greater user base.  

I think what bothers me isn't so much what this distro or that distro
does, just the fact that the choices seem to get fewer and fewer.  

With RH based distros you can still do a very minimalistic install.
Hopefully, that won't change.  However, as you point out, it does get
almost a bit frightening how various distro producers barely support
command lines any more. 



-- 
Scott Robbins
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