Re: [tlug] How to Push Linux! .......................

[Josh Glover <jmglov@example.com>]

On 07/02/06, Lyle (Hiroshi) Saxon <ronfaxon@example.com> wrote:

> Josh Glover wrote:
>
> >Remember a big, nasty, monopolistic company called IBM?
>
> Thanks to IBM allowing any company to produce the PC, we have machines
> to install Linux on.  I don't think IBM is a good comparison to
> Microsoft....

That was a mistake by IBM, not any act of kindness.

> >I get a little worked up when I see FUD, whether it comes from
> >Microsoft's PR department, Richard Stallman's mouth, or well-meaning
> >TLUGgers' mail clients.
>
> Hmmm......  Fans of Microsoft must not say anything critical of
> Microsoft and enemies of Microsoft also must not say anything critical
> about Microsoft.  Sounds like Stalinist Russia....

No, what I am proposing is that both fans and enemies of Microsoft
alike, and fans and enemies of Open Source / Free Software (to which I
shall henceforth refer as "OS/FS", because both "FOSS" and especially
"FLOSS" make me want to throw up a little) are free to criticise the
bad points of whatever they see.

From another thread[1], this means that it should be perfectly OK for
me, an employee of a company which has drawn the ire of many in the
OS/FS for their use of software patents, and a user of a webmail
service provided by a company that has conveniently forgotten their
"do no evil" guideline in order to do business with a repressive
government, to criticise Microsoft for spreading FUD in
"advertisements".

Please note that I also grant Steve carte blanche to criticise me for
working for Amazon and using Gmail. Please also note that I cannot
comment on Amazon's business practises, other than to point out that
since I am an employee of the company, I must have at least made my
peace with Amazon's tactics.

Steve is actually a great example, since he is in a position (i.e.
tenured university professor) to call it like he sees it. As loudly as
he speaks out against Amazon and Google, it pales in comparison to
some of the things he has said about the Japanese university system on
this list.

Back in this thread, that also means that it is OK for me to criticise
you for FUDding back at Microsoft. Microsoft has certainly conducted
some shady business, and certainly owns a fair share of the more
visible software bugs in the world. However, from these two data
points, concluding that Microsoft is an "illegal company" full of
assholes who cannot write good code is just as idiotic as Microsoft
supporters claiming that Microsoft beats Linux in terms of TCO. I am
sure it does in some cases, especially when a company has lots of
Windows admins (which they will need, since the average Windows shop
needs one admin per 50 users or something like that) who know next to
nothing about Unix. But I am sure there are many other cases where
Linux crushes MS in the TCO arena. Conveniently ignoring either of
these things is not likely to get you any points with me.

> >Remember what Mark said the other day, "If a common hatred of
> >Microsoft is holding us together now, what happens when the status quo
> >changes?" (paraphrased--you have the transcription! ;)
> >
> Yes, I remember.  But you misquoted him.  What he actually said is this:
>
> "There is a danger in the fact that many of the people who are
> passionate about Linux, are really passionate about their opposition to
> the status quo... because the question arises - when the status quo
> changes, what will bind us together."

I stand by my paraphrasing, which carries the same meaning as your
verbatim quote. Remember the context: you had just said something
about how Microsoft must be defeated at any cost, and Mark was saying
that OS/FS must be about more than that.

And he is right.

> No, I'm not against "the status quo".  When the status quo is something
> I feel to be a good thing, I'm happy to jump on the bandwagon, but when
> the status quo (or fringe element, whatever) is something I feel to be
> destructive to the common well-being of us all, then I end up going
> against it.

No, but you are against this particular status quo, which is exactly
what Mark meant; no more, no less. He was not talking about rebels
without a cause who will just rail against authority for its own sake.

> I'm disappointed in you Josh - I thought you had 20/20 vision and good
> hearing.....

I am hoping that this was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, because I have
had too many people "disappointed in me" for voicing my opinion
recently.

I would like to point out that if you like me for what you perceive to
be my beliefs, and that perception is then changed by me spelling out
what my opinions really are, you did not like *me* in the first place;
you liked your own opinions and were glad that I shared them.

Lyle, I am singling you out because you provided a convenient example
of something I do not like: blind criticism of Microsoft (or anything
else, for that matter). The "L" in TLUG stands for "Linux", but that
does not mean it also stands for "Let's talk about how much we hate
microsoft".

Frankly, I don't care whether you or anyone else hates Microsoft.
Microsoft has little to no bearing in my life, because I don't use it
at home. I do not like the fact that when I buy a new PC, I have to
pay the "Microsoft tax", but other than that, I don't care.

That is not to say that I think reasonable debate on the business
practises of Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Oracle, etc. are off-topic for
a LUG list, but I do think "neener neener, I hate Microsoft, yes I do!
I hate Microsoft, how about you?" type shit is a waste of time and
bandwidth.

Having said all that, please bear in mind that I am "hating the sin,
loving the sinner" here. I think you're swell, Lyle, I just don't like
when you spew anti-Microsoft bile onto this list for no reason other
than you hate Microsoft. I.e. please limit your inventive to specific
facets of Microsoft's behaviour that you find represensible, and only
when applicable to the topic at hand. Or start your own MS-bashing
thread[1] so that people can happily instruct their MUA to ignore the
thread if they are not interested in reading that kind of stuff.

Cheers,
Josh

[1] http://tlug:archives@example.com/ML/0602/msg00047.html