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[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]Re: tlug: telnet: different question + others
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- Subject: Re: tlug: telnet: different question + others
- From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull@example.com>
- Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 21:10:59 +0900 (JST)
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Of course I'll defer to Frank's expertise on the legal aspects, but I want to raise a couple of points. I'm not going to comment on the ethical aspects at this point, except to say that as general principles, (1) I don't hold the ignorant _ethically_ culpable, whatever the law might say, except to take reasonable effort to understand security implications, and to avoid taking actions in ignorance, and (2) the "respondents" (as Frank puts it, ironically the word used for the accused in civil procedures, I believe ;-) since they are implicitly acting as experts, bear proportionately more responsibility to be informed about security risks, and to pass on that information, and generic warnings about acting in ignorance. >>>>> "FB" == Frank Bennett <bennett@example.com> writes: FB> A lawyer would say that no crime is committed in Scenarios 1 FB> or 2, but that one (and, under federal law, at least, probably FB> only one) has potentially been committed in Scenario 3: OK, so far. No blood, no foul. Although there evidently have been convictions for "theft of electricity" as a way of getting around the "no economic damages". (I can't find the cite offhand though, but I'm pretty sure it was in reference to a hacking case in Europe.) FB> In other words, analogies to the practice "back in our day" FB> are regarded as correct practice, and the special risks to FB> third parties inherent in the online medium, even if they FB> materialize as in Scenario 3, are not to be taken into account FB> in fixing criminal responsibility for a given act, unless a FB> specific statutory provision (such as USC 1030) applies. I find it hard to believe that there is no appropriate analogy. If I borrow your dwelling while you are out of town, and make it a habit of placing a duplicate key under the doormat for my own convenience, and a burglar should be aware of my practice .... Now, that may not be a "crime." I realize that I should be more careful about use of the word "crime". I did not mean to limit the issue to the criminal code qua criminal code, but to include civil liability (for damages) as well.[1] Is it true that I would bear no liability for such intentional self-interested negligence? Liability for damages would surely weigh heavily on an individual. Cheswick and Bellovin mention a rather larger set of laws than your singleton, {18 USC 1030}.[2] In particular, California Penal Code 502(c)(7) allowed (as of the writing of the book in 1994) someone who "knowingly and without permission accesses or causes to be accessed any computer, computer system, or computer network" to be convicted; no damages required. A judge might laugh this out of court (given that Our Hero has been granted interactive login privileges), but this looks to me to fit the situation of Our Hero tolerably closely, since the access in question would surely be forbidden if permission were requested, and the student obviously knows that. Furthermore, discussion in that book of harboring hazardous beasts (ie, students who weaken the security of University networks) and reasonable prudence (University network security policy) suggests that the university may very well be liable for damages in Case 3 under tort law. This would constitute strong incentive for the University to have a strict policy, and to throw the hard drive at violators. Maybe no (strictly defined) crime would be involved, but Our Hero might not see the much difference in the weight of punishment. As Frank is aware, our respective Universities certainly have such issues very much on their collective minds. So far my own University shows little evidence of drawing the conclusion that it should beat hard on errant students and staff; rather, most ink is devoted to coverup and spin control. :-) Footnotes: [1] I did completely misunderstand the definition of aiding and abetting, however. I just plain got that wrong. [2] Frank: Remind me to send you the list, annotated with putative applicability. -- University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences Tel/fax: +81 (298) 53-5091 _________________ _________________ _________________ _________________ What are those straight lines for? "XEmacs rules." -------------------------------------------------------------------- Next Nomikai Meeting: June 16 (Fri), 19:00 Tengu TokyoEkiMae Next Technical Meeting: July 8 (Sat) 13:30 Topic: TBA -------------------------------------------------------------------- more info: http://www.tlug.gr.jp Sponsor: Global Online Japan
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- From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull@example.com>
- Re: tlug: telnet: different question + others
- From: Frank Bennett <bennett@example.com>
- Re: tlug: telnet: different question + others
- From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull@example.com>
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