Re: tlug: directions...

[<jq@example.com>]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Thomas O'Dowd wrote:

> the rpm discussion that people don't particularly want mr doesn'twannaknow
> to end up using it as his desktop for various (mostly security related)
> reasons, but is it heading that way?

Have you seen Corel Linux?  Happily, it's the only one like that, at
least now.

> 
> Are the distributions pushing the desktop path more and more or is it one
> set of developers? Who wants an easier to install linux? Who wants it easier
> to maintain? Who cares about linux desktop and if it has one or not? Why

Both distros and developers are, I think, but not in the same
way.  Developers are making good stuff, but they aren't necessarily
making it for the reason of being used by people who think the mouse is
a foot pedal.  At least some developers are doing that.  Who wants and
easier-to-install Linux.  Most certainly not I.  This is a point I want
to be very clear about - anyone who cannot install Linux using the
classic Red Hat ncurses-based installer, which is quite easy enough to
use, does not have enough basic knowledge of computers to install Linux
and should not be doing so.  If it takes you a few tries, that's OK, but
the kind of knowledge it demands is really knowledge that anyone mucking
around with installing any OS *should* have.  Who cares about a Linux
desktop?  Me.  I want it to have one.  It helps me keep lots of xterms
and kterms open for getting my work done  :-)  Really, though, a good
GUI desktop can be very useful, and Gnome is very good.  KDE is pretty
good, too.  Both are better than the competition in many ways and will
be totally superior in the not-too-distant future.

> shouldn't one or two distros of linux cater for people who don't know how
> it all works, but moved over because it was free and easy and did everything
> that ms did and more [1]. 

OK, as long as they do it like I described - every service is turned off
by default, and the only place you can log in is from the local
console.  It's almost like single user mode, except it's a
non-privileged user.

Right now, however, there are no distros like that.  Corel purports to
be the Linux for the low-skill level Windows transitioner (my words, but
their target market is clear), but Corel has made some appearances on
Bugtraq lately that are so big you could sail an aircraft carrier
through them without touching the sides.  It's really easy for a person
to do things like set up passwordless user accounts during the install
process.  Dumb stuff like that.  If inquiring minds wanna know, check
the Bugtraq archives at http://www.securityfocus.com.  And be
afraid.  Be very afraid.  Corel has a very slick installer (doesn't
always work, though, and has no graceful fallback to a non-GUI
installer, it either works or you're SOL).  It's aimed at the person who
knows not-enough about Windows, and nothing about UNIX.  And while one
hand gives a nice pretty installer and a very well-integrated KDE, the
other hand dispenses enough rope to allow you to unwittingly hang
yourself.

If that's what newbie-oriented distros are coming to, be afraid.  Be
very afraid.

> know everything of what's going on by the very nature of linux. But if a
> couple of distros got the security/services, ease of use thing down, then
> what is wrong with the don'tcares using that distro of linux? After all if
> it does all they want and more and is secure in doing so, then why not?

"If" is the problem here.  No one is doing that, but at least some of
them are marketing to people who are pretty far down the knowledge
curve, and not doing enough to protect them from themselves.

> I'm new to the list so I don't know any of you yet but it will be great
> to hook up and talk about what we all use linux for and what we wanna use
> it for going forward. It might be interesting to put such contents on the
> tlug site.

Does that mean you're volunteering to transcribe it all into your
laptop?  :-)  Don't worry, though, the list is archived and searchable
through a web interface.

> source and contribute to the various opensource projects. This would be a

Steve T. is one of the Xemacs maintainers, as is Steve B.  I believe
Chris still works on XFree86, and Austin has his own distro, Green Frog
Linux (and it ain't for newbies! :-)   Boti wrote Gjiten, a very nice
frontend for Jim Breen's JDIC.  Jim Breen himself makes an occassional
appearance on TLUG, although we haven't heard from him in quite a while.
So we have a good number of free software developers present here, I'd
say.

Did I forget anyone?

Jonathan

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