Re: tlug: Re: Naiibu and other naivetes

["Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull@example.com>]

>>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Byrne <- 3Web <jq@example.com>> writes:

    Jonathan> I kind of go along with Kei's definition as being
    Jonathan> something like "clueless."  Also, for a lot of people,
    Jonathan> the difference between "naive" and "stupid" is a very
    Jonathan> fine shade of nuance, as well.

So much the worse for "a lot of people."  It means that they can't
talk with an educated person and understand what is being said.
That's unfortunate.

As for shades of nuance, when I get them right, I feel very fine and
artistic.  :-)

I hate it when a fine word with subtle meaning gets corrupted this
way.  Why degrade "naive" this way when "clueless" is perfectly
servicable?

    Jonathan> Another way we could define it that takes in both
    Jonathan> clueless and unsophisticated might be "So lacking in
    Jonathan> experience that the person is easily fooled or
    Jonathan> confused."  That
    Jonathan> seems more like the clueless side of the fence to me.

Yes, and you could define it to mean "robocop-like," if you want to.
Lewis Carroll had a lot of fun with this....  The unabridged
dictionary I've got here does admit "foolishly simple" with the
qualification "sometimes"; "innocent, childlike, artless" is the
primary meaning.

The point is that naive people do _not_ become confused of themselves;
they are direct and simple, their thinking does not admit the
complexities that lead to confusion.  And for another to fool such a
person or confuse them is child abuse.

And naivete does not admit of being intrepreted as "cluelessness" at
all.  It derives from the Latin cognate of "natural."

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