Re: tlug: Anglicization - Re: Server Name?

[Masanori "Smiley" OMOTE <omote@example.com>]

Hello,

Let me add something.


> John Little writes:
>  > % 
>  > %    Tonkatu
>  > %    Shimbashi (too long, simbasi)
>  > %    Shibuya (sibuya?)
>  > %
>  > 
>  >   I know there's a name for this particular method of anglicization
>  >   (the transliteration of "sh" to "s" and "tsu" to "tu"). Does anyone
>  >   know what it is, so that I can create some "****** hantai!" signs
> to
>  >   nail to the wall outside the Education Ministry?  :-)  :-)
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, it's called the (wouldn't you know it!) Monbusho
> system. Ah, excuse me, the *Monbusyo* system [gag].

Ha, ha!!


>  >   Is it *just* me, or is this like fingernails down a blackboard to
>  >   other native English speakers, too?
> 
> Yes yes yes, absolutely! Actually, though, I think there's a legitimate
> linguistic rationale for this atrocity. To wit, because the Japanese
> themselves don't distinguish between the 's' of 'sa' and the 'sh' of
> 'shi', the Tonkatu/sibuya romanization is in a sense truer to the
> original. Needless to say, it's very counter-intuitive for us
> Englischer folk. The romanization we like, by the way--the kind
> with Shibuya and tonkatsu--is called the Hepburn system (or maybe it's 
> a derivative of that).

Yes, Japanese regard the 's' sound of 'sa' and 'sh' sound of 'shi' as
the same "phoneme".  But they are "phonetic"-ally different although
(maybe) most of Japanese don't feel the difference between them.

So, there are two systems in romanization.

Hepburn System  == phonetic description:  Tonkatsu  Shibuya  Ichigaya
KUNREI System   == phoemic description :  Tonkatu   Sibuya   Itigaya

Both of them are true.  The difference is in the aspect.

# I like Hepburn way because alphabets describes sound directly, not
# phonemic representation. :-)

--
Masanori "Smiley/Smack" Omote
work: omote@example.com
home: masa@example.com
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