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[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 15:22:57 +0900
- From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull.stephen.fw@example.com>
- Subject: Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- References: <C928F1D7-6F9A-46D6-81D5-15C62B37F2DF@me.scn-net.ne.jp> <E4B2CC75-0F43-4CC8-A4DD-D6DD85015688@yasuaki.com> <5C2E9187-9DBE-495E-B839-9C293EB51EC6@me.scn-net.ne.jp> <CADR0rndG1QyfYJpKNEsxDgCVBsmBqQZWzA6sCtb=mVTrn6CCeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Benjamin Kowarsch writes: > Most people equate capitalism with market economy. You are correct, they are different, in that capitalist economies are a subset of market economies. > And most of those who don't believe that capitalism is beneficial > to market economy. Please don't talk about "what most people believe" in a conversation among intelligent people with a modicum of understanding of how their civil society works. "Most people" dislike capitalism only in the sense that "capitalism" is a bogeyman. Most people who dislike capitalism are like the guy who said "keep the government away from my Medicare" (== US government-funded medical care). They have no idea what capitalism is, beyond the fact that they don't like whatever it may be that the word represents. > Capitalism's only priority is the maximisation of capital and thus > profits. Capitalism has no priorities. People do. Capitalism is merely a legal structure that puts no limit on how much of the means of production can be controlled by a single private person (real or corporate), and usually[1] implements transfer of control of productive resources using the market. When that control has enormous scope, that person has enormous power, and generally becomes corrupted in proportion. However, monarchy provides an ancient (and ongoing in Russia and DPRK) counterexample to the claim that capitalism is uniquely bad in this respect. ;-) > In the pursuit of this objective, capitalists will do anything they > feel they can get away with. Capitalism is opportunist. So do socialists, in pursuit of their objectives. You're just describing people. > Not only will this never happen, it cannot ever happen because > under our legal system fiduciary duty to maximise shareholder value > has been enshrined in law and companies and their boards can be > sued if they ever divert from their fiduciary duty to put profit > maximisation above all else. I'm surprised you are so ignorant on this point. That may be true in Germany or Switzerland, though I really really doubt it. Sole proprietorships, partnerships, and cooperatives (which are really just a special form of partnership) can do what they want with their resources, because they're just people, with contracts defining how they share resources and for what purpose. Corporations can be bound by covenants to not exploit certain kinds of legal opportunities for profit (non-profits, obviously, but a simple example among for-profit companies is the so-called "ethical investment fund" which only invests in female-owned or black-owned or "green" projects). U.S. corporations that have gone bankrupt have ended up reorganizing under trustees controlled by their labor unions (brave peeps, those!), using that power to greatly improve the labor contract and working conditions -- and then refloating the company as a conventional investment vehicle after satisfying the bankruptcy court that they've done what they promised to the entity's creditors. It is true that most corporations are organized as investment vehicles, the boards are elected on the promise that they will seek maximum returns to the stockholders, and the management employed under contract to do the same. I wonder why that might be, and especially why the unions mentioned above sold off their controlling interests. Hm? > And because they don't, these words continue to be used as > euphemisms for bolshevism, totalitarianism and evil. Well, 70 years of Soviet control of the trademark "communism" has had the same effect on that word that 100 years of progressive control of the word "liberal" has had on it -- for probably a majority of people they no longer mean what they did a century ago. You can fight those battles if you want, but it must get tiresome to always qualify "communism" with "as Marx [never] defined it".[2] Even "classical liberalism" is kinda annoying, but of course "libertarianism" won't do as a substitute. > If we want to overcome our unsustainable economic model and > transform it with a sustainable one, the first thing we have to do > is get our terminology right. Or invent a new one. > By contrast, socialism involves the socialisation of means of > production BUT NOT consumption. Cooperatives are an implementation > of socialism. I would be careful about that. Cooperatives may be useful as a structure within an implementation of socialism. But they are partnerships, rooted in freedom of association and presumably protected by law as corporate persons. The mere fact of organization as a cooperative provides no protection for minorities within the organization (except exit) nor for those outside the organization unless the organization's "constitution" provides them or society at large regulates them. It's easily imaginable that a cooperative would invent Facebook and tolerate hate speech, build members' homes upstream from their factory and pollute the river, or grow tobacco, lobby against regulation, and charge monopoly prices if they corner the market. Footnotes: [1] So-called "primitive accumulation" is usually a form of theft, although "intellectual property" *may* be ethically justified in terms of "creator's rights" and/or economic efficiency in the face of market failure caused by "natural monopoly". [2] Marx was mostly a whiner who wanted to complain about what he thought was wrong with capitalism (much of which he got right, much of which he didn't have the terminology to name, let alone think rigorously about) and foment revolution against it, but never had a consistent plan for achieving socialism, let alone communism, except violent expropriation of property.
- References:
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Kevin Sullivan
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Yasuaki Kudo
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Kevin Sullivan
- Re: [tlug] Introduction to (Tech) Worker Cooperatives, 09:00AM on Sunday, July 12th JST
- From: Benjamin Kowarsch
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