Re: minoru hodo koube wo tareru inahokana

[archan <archan@example.com>]

Though I thought that I will not post anything further in this list 
after the *abuse* but, I feel that I can make some comments based on the 
discussion between roylo and jack. So .... I am a littile bit of 
technical person (may be not as technical as other *technical* members 
of TLUG)  and my area of specialisation is Linux device driver, network 
programming and embedded linux (mips porting). I am from CS background 
(from India) and associated with linux for last seven years and 
contibuting to a number of open source developments. As I am a veteran 
from ILUG and kernel-mailing list, ... I felt that this LUG will also be 
a same kind of friendly place to interact with the linuxers. I got 
myself subscribed to TLUG to know the linux trends in Japan and also "to 
get help" and "to help". I used to witness & contribute to really tech 
discussion in kernel maling list but there, the abuse is not at all 
present. Also, in ILUG, we discuss from "newbie question" to "ioctl 
specification problem". In both of them (I feel both of them are *little 
bit technical* and quite active ... ~300mails/day), the attitude is 
quite different. There, we say "ur posting/patch is stupid" but before 
saying that, we rectify that patch/solution so that it can help the 
original poster. Despite this, we never loose the spirit and friendship. 
In the contrast, in TLUG, ppl are so *technical*, they criticise "loose 
posting" but they are incapable of handling the original problem of the 
mailing thread. So that's why I thought that "I am in wrong place in 
worng time". Now I am thinking that I am really in wrong place because I 
am *"in between ultra cool technical ppl"*


archan

ps. I do respect the nice ppl of TLUG

Jonathan Q wrote:

>roylo (roylo@example.com) wrote:
>
>>When people see someone make a careless [dumb] comment, they can choice to
>>make a friendly suggestion,  ignore it, make fun of it, or criticize it.
>>
>
>You'll find there is a lot more tolerance here for dumb questions
>(as opposed to inexperienced beginner questions, which are totally
>OK) than there is for dumb answers.  The philosophy on a lot
>of tech lists (not just this one) that values not saying something
>that doesn't do anything to solve the problem, and especially
>not saying something that's 100% unhelpful. The only thing worse
>is giving somebody an actual wrong answer/bad information about
>their problem.
>
>TLUG is perhaps more straightforward about saying that than
>many lists are.  If I came up with something really stupid, I
>would fully expect someone to say it was.  The atmosphere may
>sometimes seem a bit harsh to newcomers, but most of this have been
>on this list for a long time (almost four years for me, and others
>have been around even longer), but it seems to work.  Maybe it's
>a bit harsher than it once was, but we've had some really severe
>signal:noise ratio problems in the past, and this has probably
>led some of us who've been around here for a while to be rather
>short-fused about things like that.  Plus, it's just the way we
>are :-)
>
>>Of course there are people who will tell everyone to "RTFM" on everything;
>>and there are people who are willing help out others.
>>
>
>Believe me, telling someone "RTFM" is helping them out.  A lot. 
>Particularly because at the times RTFM is used, either that way or
>in some politer form, it's usually because it's pretty obvious the
>poster has not read the manual or they wouldn't be asking that 
>question in the first place.  People on TLUG and throughout the
>wider Linux community place a lot of value on the idea of helping
>yourself first.  That means you read the documentation, try to make
>it work, if you have a problem or don't understand something, then
>get on your favorite list, explain the goal, the problems you are
>having achieving it, and what you have done so far to solve those problems.
>You'll find the repsonses are both larger in number and more helpful and
>detailed.  The more information you give, the more people can help you.
>
>If a person is totally lost and doesn't even *know* what the proper
>documentation or tool for what they want to do is (which happens to
>lots of people when they are starting out, including me) they can
>post a message and say "I need to do X, but don't know how to do it/
>what to use.  Can anybody tell me where to find some tools and/or
>documentation to do this?" if someone knows what you need and where to
>find it, you can be pretty sure of getting an answer and possibly even
>a quick rundown of what it does/how it works.
>
>>I believe most people on this mail list are the ones that wants to help
>>
>
>Everyone on this list wants to help others, not just most people.
>Sometimes telling someone not to say dumb things that are totally
>useless to the recipient (heck, the guy already knew the dsl problem
>was with Linux, he said so in his initial post) is helping them.
>Simon is one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people on this
>list, and has helped many people with many things on many occasions.
>He has helped me on a number of occasions, and if he told me that my
>answer was the stupidest thing he'd ever heard, I would go back and
>take a good look at what I'd written, because the odds are pretty good
>he would be right.
>
>
>Jonathan
>
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