tlug: Intimidation? [was: Office suite for use under Linux]

["Stephen J. Turnbull" <turnbull@example.com>]

Can we stop this bickering, please, like right now?

On the other hand, it raises some interesting issues which I think are 
worth addressing on this list.  We are almost all social activists
(in the Free Software Movement, if nothing else).

>>>>> "Kei" == Kei Furuuchi <kfur@example.com> writes:

    Kei> Do I really have to see a replica of what is happening in
    Kei> Japanese sciety here?

No.  And I bet you won't.  Think about the dynamics of mailing list
creation and membership as compared to creating and joining a
corporation.  I think you'll see it can't.  The power relations are
different.[1]

I think that you are sensitive to some important issues.  The Internet
(Linux/FreeBSD especially) is going to slowly have both good effects
and bad effects on Japanese society and culture.  One aspect of this
is the freedom, anonymity, and power it gives to individuals as
individuals.  This can be used for good (as in whistle-blowing, which
there is too little of in Japanese society in my, very American,
opinion).  Or bad, as it turns into license, irresponsibility, and
"stalker violence".

But please don't "fight the last war."  Neither good nor bad are
likely to follow classic group-oriented Japanese[2] patterns, precisely
because of the power that the Internet offers to ordinary individuals
with a net connection, a Linux box, and a little bit of knowledge.[3]
Both will be perceived as threats by conservatives (by which I mean
ordinary people like your grandmother as well as LDP heavyweights).
Try to see both the opportunities and dangers for what they are.
Human nature doesn't change much; you're right about that.  But the
social expression of human nature is infinitely variable.

    Kei> kenhrd@example.com wrote:
    >> <35378695.C3D7BB47@example.com>の記事において
    >> kfur@example.comさんは書きました。
    >> 
    >> >> and you can say Windows users not welcome here.
    >> 
    >> I never say Windows users (or whatever OS/software users) not
    >> welcome here.  Every one is welcome, and is entitled to enjoy
    >> talking here.

    Kei> Well, it was implied.At least people perceived it was implied.

But possibly only you.  In any case, I personally didn't.  (That makes
the count 1-1; the word "possibly" was carefully chosen and not
intended as a put-down.)  There has been plenty of Windows-related
talk in the past.  There will be in the future, too.  Nobody has tried
to shut it down that I noticed.  Because...

... Windows-bashing, mostly in fun, and forcefully expressed opinions
are part of the culture of this ML.  It hasn't been an issue to this
point.  Eg, as the ML expands, I am personally concerned about my own
style, which is forceful and sometimes intimidating.  But I've been
encouraged by several people to continue in the same style; evidently
what I have to contribute outweighs, or perhaps is complemented, by my 
style.

If you're sensitive to that, OK, we can try to make allowances.  But
up to this point this list has been pretty free-wheeling, and people
try not to take critical comments personally, because they're not
meant that way.  Of course, it used to be a much smaller ML.

On the other hand, we're now way past the point where it's a group of
about 15 people who have gotten to know each other pretty well.  Maybe
some of the lurkers who have opinions on the style of the ML could
express them, either on the ML or perhaps privately to one of the
officers or prominent posters.  (If it comes to a vote, the group is
already dead and decomposing....  IMHO.)

Note that this differs from the classic pattern of human society, with
leaders and followers.  On the Internet, there are leaders, followers,
and lurkers.  The third group has a lot of "virtual" power, enough
that you rarely see "followers" on the Internet, except in AOL-style
"me too" chat groups ;-) Being a lurker is much more fun and profitable.

    Kei> if you are an elected officer of TLUG, it is also a threat.

People get elected officers of things like TLUG because they are
perceived to have maturity and judgement about what's good for the
group.  Give them the benefit of the doubt.

If you actually get banned from the ML or the IRC channel or the
meetings, you have a legitimate gripe, but you can easily amass a lot
of email addresses to complain to members about it.  Power is
balanced.  Other than that I see no threat; other resources of the
group are pretty well distribute.

    Kei> Let me explain what a threat is according to Securities-MOF
    Kei> scandal happening in Japan.

Your analogy doesn't work.

1.  There is no ML-Hou under which TLUG officers can go to jail, thus
    no reason for constructing plausible deniability.

2.  There is only one route to power and success in a corporation, and 
    your boss controls it.  This is the Internet; there are plenty of
    people on this ML with both the resources and willpower to create
    a new ML/user's group if circumstances warrant.

Of course this way of looking at things is very much informed by my
culture.  But I think (what with 海外留学・研修・出向 by the non-North
American members) it's probably the majority culture on the list.
That doesn't mean it can't (or shouldn't) be changed.  But precedent
does give it a certain priority.

Footnotes: 
[1]  The writings of the American science fiction writer Orson Scott
Card contain some interesting perspectives on this.

[2]  "Japanese" because that's the society you compared the TLUG to.
The "Internet society" will differ from contemporary American culture, 
too, but on different dimensions.

[3]  Unfortunately, it offers nearly as much power to troglodytes who
download mass-mail software using Netscape.  C'est la vie....

---------------------------------------------------------------
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Featuring Tague Griffith of Netscape i18n talking on source code
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