Re: tlug: Office suite for use under Linux

["Jonathan Byrne" <jpmag@example.com>]

-----Original Message-----
From: kenhrd@example.com <kenhrd@example.com>


>In fact, I am NOT a Linux purist.  I use Windows 95/NT, MS Office,
>Al-Mail, Outlook, etc. very extensively.  I am even not a Linux

If that is the case, then I hope that we can all refrain from making those
sorts of purist, exclusionary remarks.  As Kei has noted, they are
especially unfortunate when coming from a TLUG officer.

>I do have more than two computers at home, one for Linux and
>another for Windows 95 always running, sharing files and printers
>by Samba.
>
>Most of my desktop/notebook computers' disks, though much smaller
>than 2GB, are partitioned to accommodate Linux and Windows multi-
>boot.

If I may, I'd like to quote your previous statement on that:
------------
- I cannot afford the electricity, space, heat, and noise of two or more
  computers at home, for Linux and Windows separately.  I cannot afford
  the disk space for dual boot either.
------------

This was taken verbatim from your post of April 17.  I'm sure I'm not the
only person who wonders which statement is true and which is not.

>However, I wanted to say in the morning yesterday, if one is asking
>or wanting "how can I do this on LINUX" and one answers "you can do
>it on Windows", there will not be any improvements/growth/development
>of Linux world.

I think the question could be more accurately stated as "Can this be done
under Linux, and if so, how?"  The answer was basically "No, it can't.  If
you need this functionality, your near-term solutions are either
dual-booting or running two computers."  Therefore, there is absolutely
nothing inappropriate in suggesting dual-booting.

I think the claim that the answer of "you can do it on Windows" (or MacOs,
or OS/2) can hinder improvement in the Linux world is completely without
merit.  The fact is, competition is what breeds quality.  Software makers
and hardware makers both do their best work when they have real competition
that drives them to excel.  Look at the beginning of Linux: it was written
because Linus Torvalds wanted a better Minix than Minix, and he wanted it to
have open source.  We all know that his efforts succeeded beyond what anyone
could have dreamed at the time.  That first major breakthrough, the very
invention of Linux, was spurred in part by desire to make a better product
than the competition.

Every innovation in Linux since then has been the same.  Make it better than
DOS.  Make it better than Windows 3.  Make it better than Windows 95.  Make
it better than NT.  Look how high the sights have risen.  Would Linux be as
good today, and would the software that surrounds it and makes it a complete
operating system be as good today, without people looking at how good things
are on some other systems?  I haven't had the opportunity to try them yet,
but there are some graphical frontends out there for Samba.  Why?  Because
I'm not the only one who looked at Samba and said "It took me hours to set
up what I could do in seconds with a few mouse clicks under Windows."
Fortunately, some of the people who saw the need for improvement, based on
what another OS could do, were people who also had the ability to personally
do something about it.

I'm sure the world of open source software is filled with many examples like
that one.  If Mirosoft, IBM, and Apple all stopped selling software next
week, that would likely have a negative impact on the development of
software for Linux, since the competition would no longer be there.  Look at
the kind of high-quality configuration and management tools that are
appearing in Linux these days.  Do you think they would be there without
people saying "It works so easily under <insert OS here>?"  I don't.
Without the pressure from Windows and MacOS, it's likely that even X
wouldn't exist.  If the command prompt was good enough for everybody else,
it would have continued to be good enough for UNIX, too.  And as someone
noted on the ML today, the combination of the next version of X being no
longer free, it's aging 1980s look and feel, and the external pressure from
more modern GUIs may cause some of the new interfaces now emerging to drive
out X from Linux over the next ten years.  None of this would be happening
if it couldn't be done under <insert OS here> and if people noticing that.

All in all, I think "It works under Windows" are four of the most essential
words around for Linux development.  If it works under Windows today, a few
months down the road somebody who knows where they want to go tomorrow will
be writing a post that says "Now it works under Linux, too."  I just started
an online class in beginning C, in large part because I want to be able to
learn to program and write something for Linux myself some day.  Hopefully,
something that works under Windows :-)

>If certain functionality is missing in Linux arena, I want to develop
>it (though I cannot technically), or suggest developper to do it,
>or request vendors to include it in their products, rather than
>simply saying "you can do that on the other environment".  The current

Who "simply said" that?  I remember a lot of people talking about Applix,
and how it can't do those things *yet*, and I remember a discussion on
trying WINE, but it wasn't the solution because it can't do Japanese and it
can't run Win32 apps, but I don't remember anyone dismissing a Linux-based
solution without considering the Linux options first.

==============
As I have stated in my previous post, nothing written here is intended as a
flame of anyone, and all non-flame comments, public or private, are welcome.
There is a wonderful free and open exchange of ideas on the TLUG ML, and I
think that even relatively controversial exchanges like this one help us to
define where we are with Linux today, and where we want to go with it in the
future.   I hope that we will always be able to keep the focus of our list
on helping people to find the best solution of using Linux that works for
them, even if that's a solution involving heavy use of other systems,
without condemnation of that use, or of anyone suggesting such use when that
is the best way to meet the person's needs.
===============

Cheers,

Jonathan


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