Re: [tlug] Re: Alan Cox's remark at Fosdem

[Uva Coder <uva.coder@example.com>]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 06:09:34 +0100, Martin Bähr
<mbaehr@example.com> wrote:
> 
> as for forks:
> the gcc fork egcs has improved the gcc development process a lot.
> similar with xfree vs xorg...

I believe those projects would have gone a lot farther if they worked
together rather than split. Weak leadership and poor vision lead to
their problems. The resolve of its group members fixed the problem
over time. While I'm happy that they completed what they started, it
didn't have to be that way. They could have done more in less time.

> this is just the way things are done.
> eventually projects fall asleep, then it's time for a fork, or for a new
> project to push the boundaries. the result is more projects.

I disagree. This might be the case for some projects. Creating more
projects doesn't justify bad design, it just perpetuates bad
engineering. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes
perfect.

> in the commandline muaa space there are 3 big ones: elm, pine and mutt.
> those did not happen in paralell, but more in sequence. mutt had not
> started until elm had more or less stopped development, similareyl
> mutt-ng is now happening at a time where mutt is not moving along
> anymore. but new projects don't replace the old ones, they just become
> an additional choice.

The sins of the father can be seen in the children. Elm, pine and mutt
are all empty engineering ideas. As applications they do not
incorporate utilities past themselves,
thus they have been superceded by other programs which attempt to do everything.
This is a perpetual cycle because the underlying operating systems
wasn't well designed.
Thus BL decided to build the Unix reincarnate -- Plan 9.

Plan 9 isn't the end all in operating systems, but they managed to get
a lot of things right.
Learning from other examples is a good thing. Linux as an operating
system could do much better.

> you can wish for a unified mua all you want. history shows that you
> won't get one. i don't see a way to change that.

It isn't just about getting the mailer right. It is also about getting
the operating system right too.

-uva