Re: tlug: A message to the "Old Guard" - was "HTML again"

[Scott Perlman <perlman@example.com>]

Dave Gutteridge did state upon Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 06:20:25PM +0000:
> Chris got back to me again, with some responses to my points. He did agree
> with me that a big part of the problem was in how people present their
> complaints/suggestions/opinions about Linux -

(Just as an aside, does Chris know is private E-Mail is being broadcast?)

> generated them, but that ain't me. And Scott's point that they are also
> available in HTML form isn't relevant to me either, because the problem
> isn't format, it's writing and structure that leave me baffled. But here I
> agree with Chris when he says:
> >We differ here, obviously, but we're now straying into philosophical
> >territory.  The quest for knowledge, and all that.
> Okay, so let's let that issue die as well.

if you ask how to read a manpage that too can be answered, and for most
usages without excessive length.

> There is one issue left, that i would like to address further, though.
> That's the sense of community in the Linux world, and the sense that it's
> "golden age" (my term, perhaps a bit melodramatic) is coming to an end, at
> least for programmers.
> Golden ages have a way of doing that... simply coming to an end. In the art
> community, where i'm more versed, this kind of things happens all the time
> (though usually over a period of decades, not months and years like the
> recent computing world). and what happens all the time is that the "old
> guard" feels like something precious has been lost.
> Let's bring this home to Linux again. You guys (decide amongst yourselves
> who qualifies for this grouping) created something really cool. And now
> everyone wants it. I know I want it. But i don't think you can expect me to
> necessarily become part of the UNIX community in order to use it any more
> than you can expect me to become a mechanic in order to drive a car. You
> should be flattered that people are flocking to this OS which has the odds
> (in the form of Microsoft) against it. 

I'm not asking you to become part of hte development community.  I'm not.

> As Scott pointed out Linux isn't for everyone. But i think he draws the
> line too close to himself in determining who it is suited for. I read
> enough to convince me that Apache on a Linux machine made a more stable
> server than any kind of NT set up. I wanted to have my own ,com address, on
> a machine seperate from my office's usual server, so this is the set up i
> chose. Now i have it, and because the machine i usually use is tied up
> doing graphics work, i decided to use Linux for my personal things -
> e-mail, net surfing and whatever else i could figure out for it to do.
> That's why i have it and why i want to know more about it. But what i want
> to be is a computer animator, not a programmer. I have neither the time nor
> the inclination to get to the level where i could suggest to anyone that i
> work with them in order to create the software i would like to see on the
> Linux OS. The attitude that Scott gives in his e-mail is that i am not
> putting enough effort into mastering Linux or coding in order to deserve
> having it. Is that really the case, Scott?

Not at all.  But when you complain and contrast the tools you want not
being available, and then deny any part in their creation its soudns
whining.  Chris suggested a numbe of ways to get software, I pointed
out (or tried to) that in your defnese of "noise" you instead apepared
to either be asking for commercial development or a hired programmer.

Lets look at teh various questions again:

"Does such package exist?"  By iteslf is simple and harmless.
"Does such package exist, I used something like it on XXX and its
    really cool, but I can't find it?"  Is more agressive, but still
    not yet offensive.
"Does such package exist, I used somethign like it on XXX and its 
    really cool, and this is a problem because its things like this
    that make Linux hard to use"  Is now bitching.

Note that part of my suggestion in how to contribute to a project was
to test teh early versions.  Help find the bugs, and influence the
design.  Coordinate and create a presence for the tool on the web.
Neither of these require programming.  Yes people liek bug reports with
patches.  But beta testing software is a VERY important part of getting
it written

> In any case, Chris mentioned that they may already be working on a solution
> to these kinds of issues which i suggested, which is to make a seperate
> mailing list for people who want to get more technical. I think it's a good
> idea, though personally I would rather that people could see more eye to
> eye because i really think it's a great thing when those who know pass on
> to those who don't without either side demanding or resenting. 
> Ah... to live in a perfect world...
> 		...where information floats through the ether into my brain. 

I have no problems at all helping explain concepts or helping you
understand the man pages.  I have problems listening to people take a
system that is functioning, and has been proven, and then placing
themselves above it.  (Refusing to try to figure out the man pages, and
asking others to always pre-digest them)

I also didn't take the same offense Chris did to the original question
sequence.  I purely reacted to later things.

-Scott
-- 
"The only thing I learned | "I try never to let my schooling get in the
in college is that a lot  | way of my education"  - Sam Clemens 
of people go to college"  |
  -- Bob Dylan            |    Scott H. perlman@example.com  
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