Re: tlug: Office suite for use under Linux

["Jonathan Byrne" <jpmag@example.com>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Harada <kenhrd@example.com>
To: tlug@example.com <tlug@example.com>
Date: 1998年4月17日 9:13
Subject: Re: tlug: Office suite for use under Linux


>Kei Fruichi wrote:
>>Why do you have to be a linux purist?
>
>Because,
>
>- This is Linux ML, not a "convenient use of your computer" type ML.

I have a lot to say against this kind of comment.  Allow me to preface it
with the statement that nothing in the following is intended to flame anyone
or anger anyone, but I very strongly believe such statements to be
detrimental to both Linux and to TLUG and hope that we can refrain from
them.  No matter which side of the purist fence those of you who read this
may be on, I hope you will read with an open mind and consider the potential
for negative impact carried by comments such as the above. Non-flame
responses, public or private, are welcome.

Don't you think that comment is just a bit on the harsh side?   This ML
deals with all aspects of Linux, not just "How to make a religion out of
your operating system, even though a church would probably fill that role
much better."  Does this mean people who use Samba because they have a Linux
machine on a whole network of Windows 95 and NT machines better not ask any
more Samba questions here because that could be construed to mean they want
to have convenient use of their computers and make them operate as
seamlessly as possible with other platforms?

Let's keep in mind that the reason a lot of Linux users also *must* use some
other operating system at least some of the time is specifically because of
the lack of either good OA-oriented software, or in the case of stuff that
can handle Japanese, the complete lack of any OA software (soon to be ended
by Applixware-J).  Now you may ask ""What about Applix?  Isn't that a good
office suite for Linux?"  My answer to that would be that is - not as
powerful as MS Office, but more than enough for what most home or office
users need.  BUT - try and import that Excel spreadsheet or Word 97 document
into Applix.  Or rather, don't try, because it can't be done.  Yet.

The facts on the ground are that no matter what you or any of us may think
of Microsoft's products or business practices, the two biggest platforms in
both business and home use are Windows 95 and MacOS.  Microsoft Excel and
Microsoft Word are industry standards on those two industry standard
operating systems.  As one of only two people in my office running an
operating system other than Windows (another person has FreeBSD), it is my
responsibility to make my system work with what everyone else is using, not
their's to adapt their computers to suit mine.  So what does that mean?  It
means I run Samba so I can print, and so they can see my computer on the
network and access it (still need to find out what to do so that I can see
theirs and access them).  It also means running under Windows when I need to
look at things made with MS Office.  It also means running in Windows almost
all of the time during the business day, because some of my core software
has either no Linux equivalent or a poor one, and then I make it even more
complicated by doing a lot of work in Japanese, in a lot of different
software.  And there are many people in the same position in other places,
I'm sure.

I'm not saying this because I dislike Linux  If I didn't like Linux, I
wouldn't have gone to the expense of building a second computer so that
Linux could have a system all to itself at my house, because like you, I
hate dual-booting.  If I didn't like Linux, I wouldn't have half of my
not-very-big 2 GB disk drive at work filled with Linux.  If I didn't like
Linux, I wouldn't be beta testing both TurboLinux 1.9-J and Applixware-J.
My political credentials seem to be in order here.  But it's very important
to the future of Linux that there are some things it does extremely well and
some things it does not yet do very well, do to the lack of applications in
those areas.  We need to look honestly at where we are in order to plan
accurately where we want to go tomorrow (pun intended).

I'm glad that I have two computers, because that's a much better solution
than dual-booting.  I'm glad that my computer at work has enough disk space
to dual-boot. Because if at work I could only choose one OS, it would be the
one that I *need* to get my job done, rather than the one I would prefer to
use to get my job done.  At home, I could almost use only Linux, except that
one of my most commonly used apps is Internet Phone, with a parallel port
camera.  My brand of camera doesn't work on Linux.  Internet Phone doesn't,
either.  If it did, I'd be happy to buy a QuickCam, just so I could do this
under Linux.  I'll be glad when the day comes when I can do all this under
Linux alone if I so choose.  Unfortunately, that day isn't here yet, for me
and for many others.

There is a great deal of talk these days about Linux breaking into the
business world in a big way, and I think that would be a great thing.  I'm
solidly behind it. To do that, one of the key points we need to keep in mind
is that to business, one of the very important questions is "How well does a
given platform inter-operate with the other platforms we have?"  That means
more than just using Samba and getting connectivity.  That means being able
to share files with each other across the network, and do it well.  Macs and
PCs can co-exist pretty happily on a TCP/IP network, and they can exchange
files with each other comfortably, because most major office apps and
creativity apps such as Photoshop run on both platforms.  But when they need
to share a file with Linux, that's where the rubber hits the road.  What
spreadsheet format can they send me that I can read?  What word processor
format can they send me that I can read?  And moreover, they will say "Why
should we have to?  He's the one running the tiny minority OS."  And they'll
be right. For now, I need to deal in their file format, rather than the
other way around.  Maybe that's not nice, and it would be wonderful if all
office suite vendors would agree on a common file format and thereafter
compete only on performance and features.  But is that going to happen?
Well, I wouldn't say it's impossible, but don't bet the farm on it, either.

I think a very important part of this ML is Linux connectivity and
inter-operability with other operating systems.  Not just at the network
level, which works pretty well these days, but at the file level, which
doesn't work so well.  This is a critical issue for the success of Linux, so
I hope we won't try to bury it or say it's not important.

I also hope we won't try to tell anybody they should be a Linux purist, or
that there's anything wrong with not being one.  This ML, and TLUG itself,
are open to anyone who uses Linux or is interested in trying it.  I'm sure
there are more Linux users who use some other OS at least some of the time
(willing or not) then there are ones who use only Linux.  We must include
them, not snub them.  Inclusiveness in our use of Linux is what TLUG is all
about.  At my first TLUG meeting, the great openness, willingness to help,
and acceptance of a total beginner who knew about Windows but almost nothing
about Linux and who wanted to learn not because he needed to but just
because he was interested impressed me greatly.  It's what made me come
back, and keep coming back.  I think it's great, and I think it's the
hallmark of both Linux and TLUG..  Now, tell me, what do you think the
chances are that a new member of TLUG will want to keep coming back if
somebody gets in his or her face at their first meeting and says they have
to be a Linux purist?  Or does so when they are a newcomer to this ML?

Please, I hope we can all keep in mind that there are a lot of Linux users
out there with a lot of differing needs from their computers, and that all
are equally welcome here.  Our thrust should be promoting the spread of
Linux through helping every Linux user find a solution for getting Linux to
do what she or he needs it to do, and we need to accept that sometimes that
solution is going to be using LILO to boot into another OS for some tasks.
Linux is still a young OS, and it is only fairly recently that Linux
distributors and software vendors have begun seriously looking at the OA and
other desktop software potentials of Linux.  In OA, we aren't ready for
prime time yet.  But we will get there.  I believe there will be a day when
there are offices filled with Linux machines and running Linux OA software.
I'm sure there are some already.  But it will take time to get there.  Let's
not fault anyone for needing to use some other OS sometimes, or even often,
or even nearly always.

As stated above, comments are welcome.

Jonathan

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