Re: TLUG Novice/Advocacy List <was:Re: [tlug] Thanks>

["Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@example.com>]

>>>>> "ayako" == ayako kato <ayako.kato@example.com> writes:

    ayako> The more I think about the past few weeks' TLUG mail list,
    ayako> the more it seems to me like we're experiencing "the clash
    ayako> of civilizations" (as in the Huntington book)

Yes, I agree to some extent.  But I think it's more a clash of
barbarisms. ;-)  Our recent visitors were hardly civilized themselves.
They simply mouth superficially polite words, without the courtesy of
lurking[1] and getting to know the forum before jumping in.  And the
politeness lasted one post for O'Connell, who immediately started
slinging ad hominem attacks.[2]

Keigo in the mouth, hiking shoes on the tatami....

I think Rick Moen's[3] "Joe User" rant captures part of the particular
"attitude problem" we just observed:

http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/#joeuser

But there's another dimension, which has to do with the attitude of
these professional admins.  I don't have a good reference.  I've got a
couple of unsent (believe it or not!) rants, I'll put them here:

http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/Tools/Attitude/

    ayako> Maybe we should make "the jargon file" and "the hacker
    ayako> crackdown" mandatory readings for new TLUGers ... those
    ayako> helped me get to know and be comfortable (to some extent)
    ayako> with the haxor mindset and culture.

Those are too long to be required.  :-)  I'll post a suggestion to
tlug-admin shortly for amending the main list charter/description.

Other suggested readings for those interested in why hackers act the
way they do (or excuses, anyway ;-), from Moen and Eric Raymond:

http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/#opinionated (start here, keep going)
http://tuxedo.org/~esr/faq/smart-questions.html

You'll have to read between the lines a bit; they're not anthropology
(but more accurate than Raymond's intentionally anthropological essays
IMO).  BTW (ObRef technical content), Rick Moen's FAQ has a neat
discussion of Linux viruses ("yes, Virginia, there _are_ Linux
viruses, but you will never see one in the wild, and here's why", see
#virus).  For hackers who think that maybe they'd like to try
emulating a different style, here's Simon Tatham:

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html

Note that smart-questions.html and bugs.html cover a lot of common
ground.  It should be fairly easy to see how to translate most of
smart-questions.html (even if you don't think you can match Simon
Tatham's polish).  The content really isn't that different.

Which is, I think, a lot of Jim Tittsler's point about politeness.


Footnotes: 
[1]  Uh, yes, I've done that recently, within the last month as a
matter of fact.  I can keep my mouth shut, but that's my choice.

[2]  See http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/#adhominem.

[3]  For years I haven't cared much about Rick Moen because of the
"Rick Moen will be there. Will you?" silliness, but having needed to
read his page for some reason, oh yeah, the #djb rant, I'm now a fan.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
              Don't ask how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.