RE: Offtopic, inappropriate jokes?

[Scott Stone <SStone@example.com>]

hmm, aren't antitrust laws sort of anticapitalist in nature themselves?  I
don't think that Microsoft is EVIL, per se.  I don't agree with a lot of
their business practices, and I have issues with their products as do the
rest of us, but I think that calling Microsoft "evil" or a "criminal
organization" is a bit much.

Then again, let's define "criminal" here - I'm using the word to mean
"someone who does something that goes against the ethical laws of society",
ie, I dont consider mySELF a criminal for going 100mph (that's um, what,
180kph?) on the freeway when it's safe to do so.  Likewise, I dont think
that these "antitrust" laws really belong in the legal code.  But maybe I"m
not being fully clear.  Let's take the example of paying for Windows ME when
you buy the computer.  That's a marketing arrangement worked out between
Microsoft and the reseller.  It's MS's prerogative to say, "If you want to
sell our products, you have to do it the way we want it done".  

Not to say that there aren't ways around this - I've bought a lot of
computers and have never had to pay for Windows licenses that I didn't need
- build them yourself.  Just like Chris's axiom that you have to build from
source to get the most out of software, same goes for hardware :)

now i know you're going to say, "what about those memos and such from bill
gates that say 'ok how can we screw netscape'" and such... well so what?
They're competitors ... they DO that.  I can't imagine Lee Iacocca saying,
"Gladys, will you please send a nice fruit basket and a teddy bear to the
guys over at Ford?  I just love them so much *sniff*"... no, you'd hear him
talking about how he could screw Ford, obviously.

And let's look at WHY MS is a monopoly - partly due to very very good luck
in being at the right place at the right time, partly due to very good
business decisions early on, and partly due to the stupidity of other
players (ie, Apple.  if Apple had released specs to their HARDWARE and had
gotten more machines out there to run MacOS....  Microsoft never had to deal
with this, they had an established PC base that was pretty much "open
source" from the beginning).  And sure you can say that MS "stole" the GUI
from Apple or Xerox or whoever, but that A) was never challenged in court,
to my knowledge?  and B) this happens in the industry *all the time*.  in
*all* industries, actually.  ie, all cars (made after 1988 anyway) have fuel
injection, does that make Honda bad for using it because they didn't invent
it?

Hopefully I've made somewhat of a point here, and hopefully that point does
NOT simply boil down to, "Scott is a clueless jackass", although that has
been put forth at times in the past as well...

-----------------------------------------------------
Scott M. Stone <sstone@example.com>
Senior Technical Consultant - UNIX and Networking
Taos, the Sysadmin Company - Santa Clara, CA


-----Original Message-----
From: SN_Diamond [mailto:Norman.Diamond@example.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 6:11 PM
To: tlug@example.com
Subject: Re: Offtopic, inappropriate jokes?


Gavin Walker wrote:

> Bill Gates isn't evil. He's a capitalist.

Wrong.  Some capitalists obey antitrust laws that prohibit "tying".  Some
capitalists honor the warranties that they attach to their products.  Some
capitalists don't even produce fraudulent demonstrations in court before
being forced to withdraw them.

If antitrust laws were obeyed, anyone who wants to use Windows 2000 on a PC
wouldn't have to pay for a copy of the garbage Windows ME when they buy the
PC.  And if we think really hard, there might be other OSes that they might
choose instead.  Maybe some of those more honorable, capitalist companies
would have a chance to gain the profits they've earned.

If contract law were obeyed (let alone product liability law), anyone who
got slaughtered by Windows 95's FDISK command within 90 days of purchase
would have got a repair from Microsoft.  In order to get bugfixes after that
period, one might need product liability law.  But in a capitalist-oriented
industry, it would be enough to have competitors who do allow us to download
bug fixes -- or maybe even competitors who let us fix buggy programs
ourselves -- so that Microsoft might have to copy their practices in order
to survive.

Bill Gates started out as a capitalist but converted himself to a kingpin of
a criminal organization.

Incidentally, being a capitalist, sometimes I think of buying shares of
Microsoft.  The reason is that crime pays.  Meanwhile my complaints about
the evil empire would continue.

Yours sincerely,
Norman Diamond

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